fearclowns (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Doctorrin, please lets not get into semantics, you cant alter the definition of peace unless you think unlogically. just to quote you, "If I was hitting you back, that would be logic...", "Logic may be peace...". Which one is it? Hitting back is not peaceful, therefore hitting back is not logical. If both people have bloody noses who will the police believe who started the violence? who will the police arrest? Fighting back is not logical. Fighting fire with fire equals more fire.

doctorrin (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

This sounds good. But when you observe what you are defining as "logic" may change from culture to culture, society to society, person to person. If you punched me in the face, logically most people would hit you back. If I was hitting you back, that would be logic, despite why you hit me in the first place. Logic may be peace, but one man's peace is defined differently from another man's version of peace.

fearclowns (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

logic is peace, how can we say war is logical? death is logical? violence is logical? The only true logic is peace, anything that is not peace is unlogical. If doctorrin punches me in the face, how can we justify that as logic? The 4 things i listed are still the only reasons someone can justify being unlogical. Please give me an example how peace and logic are not one in the same?

doctorrin (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

We were talking emotion vs logic. You are waaaaaaaay off. Unless you somehow equate logic with peace. Which I don't. Logic has caused just as much wrong in this world as emotion has.

fearclowns (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I would think placing emotions over peace is dangerous and evil. If emotions, traditions, authorities, or dogmas interfere with peace than they must be evil. The only way I can see someone justify torture(evil) is because of the 4 things i listed. If we make laws on emotions instead of peace than man is doomed. Perhaps clarify how you believe emotions are more important than peace?

Zikau (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I've been in a couple positions where I thought I was going to drown, but never with someone pouring water on my face while pinned from moving in any direction. It sickens me that anyone could do that to another human being. Know that no one sees oneself as evil. Everyone sometimes makes decisions that they know are not the best, but ultimately no one believes his or her self to be the bad guy. In other words, torture is solely for those with beliefs different than our own. Disgusting...

doctorrin (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Like I said, even when making a belief/moral/law, emotion plays a part. You don't want "undesirable" results from a "bad" law. We shape ourselves based on the fact we don't want what isn't desired. To desire is emotion. Even in logic there is an "undesired" result. To try and separate emotion from logic is to separate wind from air. I would say, to THINK emotions are dangerous at any time is dangerous in itself. Logic in our world has done just as much as damage as emotions.

fearclowns (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I read a little on Sartre could not find much on his beliefs on emotions. Perhaps you should suggest something specific he wrote? To clarify i never suggested we rid yourself of emotions. Emotions are only dangerous when forming beliefs/morals/laws. 100% all babies want to live, therefore the will to live surpasses anything else. In its true sense, anything that is not peace jeopardies the will to live? correct?

doctorrin (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

You were also born with emotion and the ability to destroy(even if by mistake). To me, the fallacy of your logic is that you actually think you CAN rid yourself of emotion. Logic drives emotion and vice versa. They are unified. Like I said, Sartre. You have filled yourself with the "idea" of logic yourself. So tradition and authority are right in your minds frontyard. Logic doesn't give you more merit than any other human. Western world thinks they can always "separate" existence. Fallacy.

VeyronAA (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Fucking hell I cant believe that there are idiots who are actually against water boarding! There is absolutely nothing wrong i any way with torturing a terrorist to gain information that we need to save our own people. This world is getting way to fucking gay. ANTI WATER BOARDING! FUCKING HELL THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DESERVE TO BE TORTURED!